‘That Girl’ Creator Bill Persky on How He Created the Groundbreaking Marlo Thomas Hit (Exclusive)

THAT GIRL, Marlo Thomas, 1966-71 — Everett Collection

Everett Collection

On September 8, 1966, That Girl, starring Marlo Thomas, debuted. The series — which centered on aspiring actress Ann Marie, who left the suburbs of Brewster, New York, to seek fame in New York City — was groundbreaking in its focus on a modern, unmarried woman who was more interested in her career than finding a husband. The timing was right, and the show, which tapped into the growing feminist movement in the country, was a success that ran for five seasons, with its final episode airing on March 19, 1971.

Bill Persky, who had already won two Emmys for The Dick Van Dyke Show, was tapped to write the show, along with partner Sam Denoff. Here, he tells ReMIND how he created one of the most important TV shows of the ’60s.

“I want to do a show about a single woman who wants more from life than to get married”

THAT GIRL, Ted Bessell, Marlo Thomas, 1966-1971 [1966 premiere episode], Season 1.

Everett Collection

At the time, The Dick Van Dyke Show was filmed in Los Angeles at Desilu Studios, founded by Desi Arnaz and Lucille Ball. “It was a small, five stage studio, and we had five of the top shows in the top 10,” Persky begins. “It was The Andy Griffith Show, Gomer Pyle [U.S.M.C.], The Danny Thomas Show, us and I Spy. I mean, it was just the most magical little place in the world. So, our stage was right next to Danny Thomas, and Danny was a partner on the Van Dyke show, so he became pretty familiar with us, and he liked us.”

Meanwhile, Danny’s daughter, Marlo Thomas, had done a pilot for ABC about three stewardesses living together, but it didn’t get picked up. The network, however, still wanted to do a show with her. “They said, ‘You could be a circus lion tamer, your father is a professor and you’re married …’ and she said, ‘No, I want to do a show about a single woman who wants more from life than to get married,’ ” Persky relays. “And they said, ‘Well, we can’t do that.’ And she said, ‘Well, that’s what I want to do.’ And they said, ‘Well, what is it?’ And she said, ‘That’s what I’m going to create.’ They said, ‘Who can you create it with?’ And she said, ‘Bill Persky and Sam Denoff.’ And they said okay. We had never met her. She asked us if would have cup of coffee or something. And she said, ‘I can get this pilot made, if you will write it.’ ”

Persky was intrigued by Thomas’ premise for the sitcom. “I was always a feminist, because of my sister growing up,” he says. “So, I said, ‘Well, can we see you do something?’ She said, ‘I’m about to do Barefoot in the Park in London with Daniel Massey.’ So, we went over to London, we went to the show, and it was terrific. We liked her, so we came back, we wrote it, we shot the pilot, and they bought it.”

How Miss Independence became That Girl

Deciding on what to name the new series was a memorable conversation for the scribe. “They were going to call it Miss Independence because that’s what her father called her,” he explains. “And I said, ‘You know, for what we’re trying to do, Miss Independence sounds like you won a beauty contest.’ And she said, ‘Yeah.’ So we started talking, and I said, ‘I know what I think the title should be. It’s That Girl.’

And they said, ‘That’s great!’ I said, ‘You don’t even understand why. My sister was very special, and my parents always referred to her in the third person, “That girl is going to drive me crazy.” ‘So that was the beginning of That Girl.”

The first episode set the stage for how the show would start each week. “The opening that we did on the first show was to try to say, ‘Here’s the background of this girl. Her parents are an older couple, very conservative,’ ” Persky explains. “So, she was on the phone with them, and she was telling them she was getting a job. They hung up, and they looked at a photograph of her with her cap and gown on, and said, ‘I don’t know what to expect next from that girl.’ Then there was a scene in the agent’s office, and he was trying to sell her for something, and he was talking on the phone. He said, ‘I’m going to tell you something: You will not go wrong with that girl.’ And then there was a scene in a restaurant where a busboy came over to the table, and the guy said, ‘Where’s my waitress?’ And he looked up and he said, ‘That girl.’ I said, ‘We’ll do this for the pilot, because it’ll help define her.’ And that became a classic opening.”

The show was immediately well-received. “It was a hit right from the beginning,” Persky says. “Never quite as much as it should have been. But now, I meet women in their 60s and 70s, young women who were in their teens or in their pre-teens, and That Girl changed their life. It suddenly said, ‘You can do this.’ It had a very powerful impact.”

“Marlo was always the best”

THAT GIRL, William Schallert, Marlo Thomas, Ted Bessell, 1966-1971

Everett Collection

Persky enjoyed a good relationship with Thomas. “She was always the best,” he praises. “I mean, we loved one another. She knew I was on her side, not to acquiesce, but to defend her in what was fair. So, we’ve always been very good friends.”

It was not always as smooth sailing with Thomas and Denoff, who was not as feminist-leaning as Persky, he reveals. “With great love, I was constantly interceding to make things nice,” Persky shares. “I remember one script reading of That Girl, and Sam and I sat at one end of the table and Marlo sat at the other end and at the end, Marlo said, ‘I think that that middle part [needs work],’ and Sam said, ‘It’s going to work, believe me.’ I said, ‘Well, we can talk about it.’ And Marlo said, ‘Yes, let’s talk about it.’ And it graduated to the point where Marlo said to Sam, ‘F*** you,’ and he said to her, ‘F*** you,’ and they kept saying it to each other. She backed out of one door, and he backed out of the other door, and I was sitting there with all the people, and I said, ‘Okay, the F*** you festival is over, what are we going to do?’ But it was a great experience.”

The wedding episode that wasn’t

As for the finale, in which Ann did not wed her longtime boyfriend, Donald Hollinger, Persky shares, “The network insisted that they get married, and Marlo said, ‘If they get married, everything I wanted to do means nothing. That is not the pinnacle for her, that is a piece of her life, and we’re not going to have them get married.’ So, we didn’t.”

Persky, who went on to direct another female-driven sitcom, Kate & Allie, from 1984-89, looks back on his body of work with pride. “I’ve always been supportive and loved women as people, and when I do speaking engagements, I say, ‘I was responsible, not completely responsible, but in a way responsible for three shows,’ ” he concludes. “‘That Girl and Kate & Allie were bookends, and [The] Mary [Tyler Moore Show] was the book in the middle.’ Mary wouldn’t have gotten to be there, and she acknowledged that Marlo opened the door, and she came through it.”